Eh.Res-Frank vs. Landes Forum Summary
David S. Landes’ 1998 book entitled The Wealth and Poverty of Nations elicited many reviews, critiques, and debates. Landes presents a narrative of the Industrial Revolution’s characteristics and the "advantages" Europe had by the middle of the 18th century. Essentially, as Landes states, "[i]f we learn anything from the history of economic development it is that culture makes all the difference," (Gunder Frank’s April 22, 1998 posting). The view of Europe’s domination circa 1750 has been an issue of debate. Historian Gunder Frank hypothesizes that the Far East was on a level playing field with Europe by 1750. If this is the case then the Industrial Revolution hinges on the "great bifurcation" that occurred since 1750, (May 12,1998).
So did the Industrial Revolution occur by accident or was there a "great bifurcation" ? Most scholars believe that systematic differences existed between countries leading up to and during the period of the Industrial Revolution. While Frank believes European emergence as leader during the Industrial Revolution occurred as a result of Asian economic slowdown, Jack Goldstone believes that Europe, especially England, "leaped ahead," (May 14, 1998). This "leap forward" was characterized by technological innovations and inquiry. Josh Rosenbloom notes that "even if we accept the view that the ‘great bifurcation’ in income did not emerge until sometime in the 18th century, it is not so obvious that the roots of the West’s distinctive path in the last several centuries are not to be found in prior events," (May 14, 1998).
So whose view is correct? Did Europe have the advantage as Landes contends, or was Asia on equal grounds as Frank believes? Answers as to why Europe and not Asia have pointed to the superiority of European institutions, culture, politics and religion and the lack of one or more of these qualities in Asian countries. Frank, Goldstone and others have forwarded a modified view. "IN CONTRAST," Goldstone writes, "we argue that it is difficult to find EMPIRICAL evidence that sustains a view of an inherently advantaged Europe centuries before industrialization , and that much empirical evidence suggests equality or superiority for Asian societies relative to Europe." Europe’s ultimate domination may have been the result then of population growth in Asia, easy access to coal, and institutional and cultural shifts.
In addition to the scholarly debate over Frank’s and Landes’ research, this forum also includes numerous reviews for The Wealth and Poverty of Nations, Frank’s responses to Landes’ work and the postings from outside lists as they relate to the debate over the Industrial Revolution.
The following is the list of postings from the Frank vs. Landes Forum. I have indicated which are unrelated:
EH.R: More on Landes' _Wealth and Poverty of nations_
Gunder Frank (Mon May 11 1998 - 16:44:12 EDT) Alan M. Taylor (Tue May 12 1998 - 16:03:11 EDT) Gregory Clark (Wed May 13 1998 - 12:57:24 EDT) jack a. goldstone (Thu May 14 1998 - 10:43:58 EDT) Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Thu May 14 1998 - 11:05:13 EDT) Brad De Long (Thu May 14 1998 - 11:20:13 EDT) Anthony Patrick O'Brien (Thu May 14 1998 - 11:52:26 EDT) Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Thu May 14 1998 - 13:45:52 EDT) Jonathan Liebowitz (Thu May 14 1998 - 15:47:54 EDT) Robert Marks (Fri May 15 1998 - 13:36:12 EDT) Gunder Frank (Fri May 15 1998 - 13:36:12 EDT) Piet van de Donk (Fri May 15 1998 - 13:46:23 EDT) Alan M. Taylor (Fri May 15 1998 - 13:46:21 EDT) Brad De Long (Fri May 15 1998 - 13:46:22 EDT) Kris E Inwood (Fri May 15 1998 - 14:27:51 EDT) James M. Blaut (Fri May 15 1998 - 17:16:18 EDT) Michael L. Robison (Mon May 18 1998 - 10:53:54 EDT) Rebecca Menes (Mon May 18 1998 - 10:53:53 EDT) Giovanni Federico (Mon May 18 1998 - 10:59:52 EDT) D. McCloskey (Mon May 18 1998 - 11:17:29 EDT) James M. Blaut (Mon May 18 1998 - 11:17:27 EDT) Ken Pomeranz (Mon May 18 1998 - 11:38:55 EDT) Brad De Long (Tue May 19 1998 - 10:57:52 EDT) James M. Blaut (Tue May 19 1998 - 10:57:51 EDT) Michael Perelman (Tue May 19 1998 - 15:48:42 EDT) lawrence boyd (Tue May 19 1998 - 17:21:53 EDT) D. McCloskey (Wed May 20 1998 - 12:52:31 EDT) G.DAUDIN@lse.ac.uk (Wed May 20 1998 - 15:06:38 EDT) D. McCloskey (Wed May 20 1998 - 16:21:59 EDT) Gunder Frank (Thu May 21 1998 - 16:28:39 EDT) Perkinsej (Thu May 21 1998 - 16:28:40 EDT) jff@ix.netcom.com (Fri May 22 1998 - 11:39:43 EDT) James M. Blaut (Fri May 22 1998 - 11:47:33 EDT) Kris E Inwood (Fri May 22 1998 - 11:47:34 EDT) James M. Blaut (Fri May 22 1998 - 11:47:33 EDT) James M. Blaut (Fri May 22 1998 - 15:51:05 EDT) David Richardson (Thu May 28 1998 - 11:14:09 EDT) Mark Jones (Thu May 28 1998 - 11:14:14 EDT) Rebecca Menes (Wed May 27 1998 - 10:33:51 EDT) Alan M. Taylor (Wed May 27 1998 - 10:33:52 EDT) jack a. goldstone (Wed May 27 1998 - 10:49:42 EDT) Jim Bessen (Wed May 27 1998 - 12:59:24 EDT) D. McCloskey (Wed May 27 1998 - 12:59:24 EDT) Alan M. Taylor (Wed May 27 1998 - 13:34:42 EDT) jack a. goldstone (Wed May 27 1998 - 17:14:41 EDT) Thomas Jackson (Thu May 28 1998 - 10:54:08 EDT) James M. Blaut (Thu May 28 1998 - 11:08:55 EDT) Richard Sylla (Fri May 15 1998 - 15:30:03 EDT)EH.R: EH.R: Frank versus Landes
Perkinsej (Mon May 18 1998 - 11:17:29 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Post: Gunder Frank's first response
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Mon May 18 1998 - 11:38:56 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #1
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Mon May 18 1998 - 11:57:33 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #2
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Mon May 18 1998 - 11:57:33 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #3
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Tue May 19 1998 - 10:52:38 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes: the "California School"
jack a. goldstone (Tue May 19 1998 - 13:00:28 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #4
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Wed May 20 1998 - 11:06:41 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Post #5
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Thu May 21 1998 - 16:28:40 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #6
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Thu May 21 1998 - 16:36:34 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #7
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Fri May 22 1998 - 11:57:33 EDT)EH.R: Landes is on the Radio Right Now!
D. McCloskey (Fri May 22 1998 - 12:09:50 EDT)EH.R: Landes is NOT on the Radio Right Now!
D. McCloskey (Fri May 22 1998 - 12:52:33 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #8
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Fri May 22 1998 - 17:43:49 EDT)EH.R: Re: EH.R: Frank versus Landes
D. McCloskey (Thu May 28 1998 - 11:14:33 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #9
Joshua Rosenbloom (Thu May 28 1998 - 11:14:21 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes an Editorial Interjection
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Thu May 28 1998 - 11:26:09 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes: AGF's Response #3
Gunder Frank (Mon Jun 01 1998 - 23:21:13 EDT)
The following are archived messages related to the forum discussion:
April 1998: (pre-forum)
EH.R: De Long's Review of _The Wealth and Poverty of Nations _ by Landes
Robert_Whaples@mta.wfu.edu (Mon Apr 06 1998 - 14:41:11 EDT)EH.R: Another Review of _The Wealth and Poverty of Nations _
John.Komlos@econhist.vwl.uni-muenchen.de (Wed Apr 22 1998 - 11:20:14 EDT)EH.R: Another Review of _The Wealth and Poverty of Nations _
Gunder Frank (Wed Apr 22 1998 - 12:52:38 EDT)EH.R: Another Review of _The Wealth and Poverty of Nations _
Brad De Long (Wed Apr 22 1998 - 17:19:20 EDT)EH.R: Another Review of _The Wealth and Poverty of Nations _
Kenneth Lipartito (Thu Apr 23 1998 - 13:28:47 EDT)EH.R: Another Review of _The Wealth and Poverty of Nations _
jack a. goldstone (Fri Apr 24 1998 - 12:23:34 EDT)June 1998:
EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #10
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Wed Jun 03 1998 - 11:19:45 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #11
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Wed Jun 03 1998 - 11:34:04 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #4
(Wed May 20 1998 - 11:01:14 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #4
Jeff Friedman (Thu Jun 04 1998 - 12:00:06 EDT) James M. Blaut (Thu Jun 04 1998 - 10:54:50 EDT) James M. Blaut (Thu Jun 04 1998 - 10:59:49 EDT) Alan M. Taylor (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 10:47:45 EDT) Brian Shoesmith (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 10:47:46 EDT) Deirdre McCloskey (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 13:38:46 EDT) James M. Blaut (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 13:38:46 EDT) B. van Ark (Mon Jun 08 1998 - 10:49:24 EDT) Ken Pomeranz (Mon Jun 08 1998 - 10:49:24 EDT) jack a. goldstone (Mon Jun 08 1998 - 10:49:24 EDT) Deirdre McCloskey (Mon Jun 08 1998 - 15:08:34 EDT) James M. Blaut (Wed Jun 10 1998 - 17:12:13 EDT)EH.R: Frank versus Landes X-Posts #12
Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Thu Jun 04 1998 - 10:54:50 EDT)EH.R: gunder frank response # 4
Gunder Frank (Thu Jun 04 1998 - 12:00:06 EDT) Deirdre McCloskey (Thu Jun 04 1998 - 15:41:40 EDT) Alan M. Taylor (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 10:47:46 EDT) Deirdre McCloskey (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 11:54:16 EDT)EH.R: Request to cite EH.RES discussion on Frank verus Landes
Bob Lewis (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 10:53:23 EDT) Michael L. Robison (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 15:11:51 EDT) Joshua L. Rosenbloom (Fri Jun 05 1998 - 18:15:58 EDT)